Words of Radiance Reread: Chapter 57

@25: My comment was meant to illustrate the difference between Kaladin and Adolin. 

Kaladin excels at everything he tries without putting too much effort. He picks up a staff in WoK: he knows how to hold it and make a trust without having been taught. When he joins the army, he rapidly frustrate his trainer as he does not seem to need any: he instinctively knows how to fight with a spear. The same goes with surgebinding, a few trials and errors and he nails it.

In other words, Kaladin is a natural.

Adolin, on his side, probably has naturally good physical aptitudes, good eye to body coordination, but he is not a “natural”. Sports commentators often make the distinction between “natural talent” in hockey and those who learned through “hard work”. Of course, the later have some modicum of talent to reach their level, but it is not as natural as the first. This being said, Adolin prowess came at the end of 17 years of intense training. He has years of training more than anyone else his age due to his early start. They say you can tell the difference between the kid who started hockey at 3 and the one who started at 8. It is likely he has put more effort on his training than anyone else, hence the result: he is very good, better than anyone we have so far met.

I say Adolin is not a natural because his learning patterns are tightly linked to his training. He is very good at things he has previously learned, but when you move outside of them, he acts dumb. Kaladin, on the other hand, is very intuitive, which means he sound smart no matter what they talk about. He does not need so much tutoring or training.

Think of the bright kid who hardly seem to work at school and yet gets good grade (and likely grows out bored) versus the bright one who is good at learning lessons and also gets good grades, but works out for it (and likely grows out into an over-achiever). The first one is a natural/intuitive, the second one, while having a natural ability towards learning, needs to work for the same result. 

That’s basically how I see Kaladin and Adolin. Perhaps word natural was well placed, but Adolin strikes to me as the kind of person who needs to work at his lessons to assimilate them while Kaladin can simply browse through them.

@27: I personally wish Elhokar will be our failed Radiants… Cryptics investigated him, but he failed to come through. It would befit him, I think.

@35: I also believe Kaladin’s reward was intended to be one set of Shards. This is a large enough boon as it is: nothing is worth more than Shards in their world which is why Kaladin’s complete lack of respect towards them is insulting to most. Yeah, I know, he is a Radiants, so Shards are evil, but he should at least show them a modicum of respect instead of treating them like a piece of garbage. They are poor suffering dead spren, they deserve a bit of softness, not is disgust. The other Radiants are not so distasteful. Anyway.

@36: Adolin accusing Sadeas of crimes against his house is not the same thing. Everyone knows Sadeas has betrayed an ally on the battlefield: this is common knowledge, but considered acceptable as long as Sadeas plays ignorant. Adolin does not need to bring forth further proof than the death of 6000 of his soldiers.

Kaladin is basically accusing a man with a clean record nobody ever had anything against of crime against his person…. It was the most unbelievably stupidest thing he could have done. He had no right to force the issue: he spoke to Dalinar about it, Dalinar said he would investigate. Period. He should have waited for the results and not “force the issue” by publicly incriminating a man without being able to bring any meat to the table. 

He talked out of place to the king nonetheless. He requested a duel he had not right to request against a prominent member of their society he is accusing of the vilest crime without having any proof. Isn’t it a crime in modern law to falsely accuse someone? Because for all intent, that is what Kaladin is doing…. If you can’t prove it, then it didn’t happen.

Kaladin also interrupted a superior officer while he was talking and he ruined a carefully laid out plan. He deserved to be punished for his insubordination and it was about time someone puts him back into this place. When soldiers are disobedient, they receive sanction. Kaladin is a soldier and he disobeyed in a way carrying large consequences. Imo, a few days was enough. Weeks or death penalty was plainly exaggerated. 

All in all, Kaladin thought of himself, himself and only himself and decided to use the opportunity to absolve his personal need for revenge independently of the consequences to more important issues than his own person.  I can’t believe how someone who thinks of so much of others when it comes to protecting can be so self-centered at times.

@46: That’s an interesting comment.

I especially like the part where you mentioned Kaladin getting grumpy upon learning to fight with Shardblades. If I recall his comment properly, he was mad he was not good at it, right away. He thought how he was good from the start with the spear, but the sword was somehow harder. This part reinforce my personal impression Kaladin indeed is one of those naturally talented individual who never had to work very hard to achieve good skill level, until he picks up a sword.

As for the event back in Heartstone, I’d say it is unclear starting from when his Nahel bond started. Syl talks of the Amaram’ army, but other references mention a time before that. For the longest time, I thought Kaladin’s skill was supernatural, just like Shallan’s memory is, but it was disproved. The Nahel bond would grant him superior speed, strength and endurance, but did he get that as early as Heartstone? It seems doubtful.

This being said, I am quite hung up on Kaladin being a naturally very gifted person, a very intuitive one.

I have another explanation as to why Adolin may have been underestimated for years, but it quite out of the hat… A lot of rambling coming forward, so you have all been warned. Adolin started his training at 6 when most kids don’t start until they are 10-11. He was 4 to 5 years younger than all other beginners which means each time he was paired with one to spar (no doubt the Ardent make the kids spar one with another, it does not make sense they wouldn’t), he was paired with someone taller, stronger and older. By the time he was 10-11 years old, he probably was way above, in skill, the new flock of beginners which means the Ardent likely kept on pairing him with the older, taller, stronger and bigger kids. As a result, I suspect Adolin was not considered much of a threat to most of his training peers as him being younger and smaller gave him a huge disadvantage, a disadvantage he would not have lost until he reached his mid-teens which coincidentally matches with his duel with Tallanvor, the one they all thought he would lose. As Dalinar pulled him out of the dueling ring not long after, all of the duelist remained with an impression Adolin got lucky on that one… a good fighter, but not a threat to a champion.

I agree, that’s a lot of rambling. Another explanation is Adolin’s love of fashion and tendency to focus on minor details probably got earn him to be perceived as shallow and likely dumb, especially since he tend to act below his wit whenever around his peers. A fopish kid who keeps on bragging, but has not much to bring to the table. Again it works better if they had spend years dismissing him which I can only see happening if he had a true disadvantage while being tutored (being 4 to 5 years younger would do just that).

I agree however it is strange he would be so much better then them… I suspect had he fought two with Blades with his Plate nearly drained, he would have struggled more. Something else may have also been at play, but Relis sure did not make a good impression, for a champion. Neither did Jakamav and Adolin called them the two best duelist in camp.

@62: I had wondered about that as well… Nobody seems to think something is wrong with Kaladin. The man does the impossible, in front of witnesses, but nobody is seen to ask questions as to how he pulls it of. The fact he managed to break a Plate with his feet and still walk again shortly after is unthinkable. 

Why aren’t people asking about Kaladin? Why isn’t there anybody to wonder about him?

Oh yeah, there’s Adolin… The only one to wonder, to question, to try to figure it out…

I have no idea what Rosharian fears… Adolin is afraid of Highstorms. Nobody has seen fit to share their fears with us, mere readers. As for Acrobacar, we do not have much detail on him, only that he is a skilled duelist who likes Renarin and would hate being forced to harm him, according to Relis that is.

I have no idea what Pattern did, probably played with the light to try to blind Acrobacar or something along those lines. People in the crowd probably did not see a thing as Patter is rather hard to spot.

@83: Brandon explained what happened to Relis. Kaladin did a hand clasp (which he managed on the first trial, we can discuss as to how unrealistic that was), which allowed him to touch Relis’s Blade at the same time as he. Since Kaladin is a Radiant, he hears the screams. It appears Relis heard the screams because he was touching the Blade at the same time as a Radiant. 

There is absolutely nothing “special” about Relis. He is a piece of scum who was willing to trap Adolin into an unfair fight in order to maim him simply because he humiliated his cousin. Worst, he was willing to use young Renarin, an untrained nonthreatening kid, as leverage to force Adolin to go along with the beating.

Therefore, the fact Relis heard the Blade scream has nothing to do with HIM, but everything to do with Kaladin. 

As for the dead-sprens, Brandon has also confirmed they do retain some level of consciousness which explains why they end up changing their physical appearance is hold for many years. The Blade likely gets conscious of its last moment each time it is summoned, but it needs more than that to pass through that breaking point.

I am going to be cheesy and say: they need an Adolin to talk them through it.

Edit: Ah Alice posted at the same time I did!

@86: Yeah… Well I doubt Brandon would use the same plot line twice… I do not recall that one, it must have been buried within many I had little interest with. That’s an old one is all appearances as the individual who uses the name Outis now uses Oudeis. It has to be at least a year’s old. 

Still I think Syl is pretty safe now ;-)

Though I wonder what kind of conscience those half-dead-spren retain… They can alter their physical appearances, but only if they retain the same holder for long enough. It means they have some level of awareness as to who holds them. They are not completely blind which means Adolin’s Blade likely hears him….

On the side note, I was just made aware (imo I’ve just noticed the new posting) Brandon is going to publish an excerpt into his Newsletter on Monday or Thursday. I think it may be the Dalinar flashback chapter, so go register people!!!! 

Well, of all occasions where Adolin did witness Kaladin awesomeness, this has to be the one where he got to appreciate it the most. He may have been very focus on his fight and starting to be dazed, he still was far from his state at the Tower fight (well I think he was) where he fought for a long time without pause, extending himself beyond measure. It is after this fight Adolin decides there is irrevocably something wrong with Kaladin and he outright asks him about it. He wouldn’t have done that before because he was not entirely sure of what he saw. Now he is sure. 

Pattern as a scorpion, LOL. But why would Acrobacar be worried about a scorpion while wearing a Plate?

@92: Whitespine are huge… I doubt Pattern can impersonate one without active lightweaving from Shallan which she did not seem to be doing. Besides, the audience would have seen it, if it were a whitespine… I suspect Pattern was merely buzzing and being annoying, but not necessarily threatening as Acrobacar sure had no issues to leave it there and go help his teammates. Hopefully, we’ll learn more in the next book.

@93: Adolin clearly agrees with himself things don’t add up with Kaladin. We know he does not start to trust Kaladin until after the duel, but it was not his prowess that changed his mind: it is the fact he saved Renarin. It’s just weird he’s the only one who thought it improbable Kaladin could have done all of those things while not harboring a secret.

We have to be careful… just because we, the readers, are heavily focus on Kaladin does not mean the crowd was. The duel was written in a very Kaladin centrist POV which means we, the readers, have taken more attention to him than to Adolin in the overall fight. As a result, we can’t fathom why the crowd did not notice the hand clasp, the kick and the dodging. 

As many have pointed out, they didn’t notice: they were watching Adolin who was busy being an awesome duelist. He was running the show, but we, the readers, have been given a different perspective. We are being told the duel is Kaladin’s moment of glory, not Adolin, hence we question. How could they not see it? Well… You know… Kaladin was kinda not the focus person for them, but he was for us.

Unlike many, I do not have so much issue imagining why the Alethi crowd basically ignored Kaladin. As Alice pointed out, we are given the author’s perspective on the action. For us, the readers, Kaladin is a much more central character than Adolin. The story therefore focuses heavily on him. We know he is mightily more important than Adolin, we know he is basically surgebinding, we were waiting for the moment he would reveal himself, but the crowd does not know that. Adolin was fighting two, occasionally three, Shardbearers with an previously seen level of skill. Of course they were watching him and not the spearman who dodged a Shardbearer or two. Why would they watch a lone unarmoured soldier who purpose was to distract the opponents when they had a duel of unsurpassed intensity to set their eyes on?

Had the fight been told from Adolin’s perspective, had we been privy to his moves, his thoughts, his duel, we would have likely not paid much attention to Kaladin just as we are not paying much attention to Renarin. However this is not the story the author chose to tell: the author told us the story of Kaladin, the proto-Radiant, who decided to step in to protect a man he previously hate because the fight was dishonorable. He chose to relate us all of Kaladin’s moves and to tell us how he used stormlight to move forward. He told us how Kaladin broke his feet slamming a breatplate, but had we have Adolin’s perspective, we would not know that. We would just know he broke a plate which had already been weaken.

It is why we need to remove our “pro-Kaladin” google to truly appreciate the duel experience from your average lighteyed. Once we do this, it became much more obvious why they didn’t think twice about Kaladin.

However, I do partly agree with EvilMonkey. Dalinar, to the very least, should have condone more research on Kaladin before putting him in charge of the king. This was a serious oversight which highlights one of Dalinar’s greatest weaknesses: trust. If someone appears honorable per his personal definition, he’ll be inclined to blindly trust him and he won’t look for hidden motives.

@114: I think Dalinar should have investigate simply because Kaladin is a stranger. He may have come up with strong recommendations, he does not know the man. Putting him in charge of the king was a huge gamble that nearly backed-fired as was entrusting the command of a 1000 men to a man having little experience in the matter. 

Dalinar did a stretch of trust when it came to Kaladin and it could not have paid of. He could have made the mistake of over-trusting a man simply because he approves of his honor code (Amaram *cough* Amaram). 

As for Adolin, I suspect he did not hear or else he would have think some more on it. Adolin generally notices everything when it comes to Kaladin, but he tends to phase out during fights. He pushes himself hard to the point where he block himself out from anything but the fight. He can’t remember the Tower at too well, he can’t remember the Szeth fight either and I bet he has a few dizzy recollection of the last fight at the Plateau. Based on this, I am not surprised Adolin is not seen pushing this issue. The information probably just didn’t register.

On the side note, it appears SA3 will involve some traveling around….

Dalinar spend a few minutes in the vicinity of Kaladin during the Tower fight. It is one positive experience. As an individual, I demand more than a one time event to judge the value of a person. Had I been Dalinar, I would not have given my trust this easily. I would have rewarded the man, given him a worthy position, but I may not have given him the responsibility of the king’s safety.

However, we can also make the argument Dalinar was stretch thin and he had little options. It could be that, without the loss of 6000 soldiers and the nearly destruction of the Cobalt guard, he truly did not have the choice to entrust this new man with enhanced responsibilities. 

This being said, I think we can all agree, whether we agree or not about the Kaladin incident, that Dalinar is, on average, too trusting.

I do not agree the other Highprinces should have investigated Kaladin. He is a darkeyed rewarded with a high position, unusual for someone with his eyes colors, but likely not unheard of. He is not a wildcard to them, he is just a man. Why would they look twice at Kaladin? They have no reason to do so. I agree the shash brand is strange, but huh he is Dalinar’s man. Dalinar is weird. They probably didn’t think more of it.

@118: Go re-read my post at 117. I essentially said the same thing as you. I did say the reason I thought Dalinar was not as cautious as he should have been was due to the huge man loss his army just went through. I also said how I would have not have given so much trust so quickly to Kaladin, but hey Dalinar is not me.

However, I maintain my point: trust is Dalinar’s weak point.

As for how Dalinar feels, strangely we have not been made privy of it. Surely he is angry at it, but it is heavily contained. Adolin is the one having trouble coping with the event. 

@120: Ah well that makes two of us as I fervently wished Adolin has had a few POV in part 4, arguably my least favorite part of the book. After part 3, how can he go back to being a background character? That hurt. Deeply. 

I used to love baseball, but we lost our team a long time ago. Love the baseball analogy: I think it rather appropriate, though Kaladin would not even be a player… To echo my previous comments, he is important to us, not to them. They weren’t watching him, they were watching the most amazing duel ever fought in years. 

Adolin was amazing: all eyes were on him.

Except that Kaladin proved to be untrustworthy. He has repetetively put his loyalty to his men before his duty to the king. I’ll wager Dalinar would not have put him in charge of the king’s safety had he known that in advance…

Kaladin not only protected a known conspirator in a threat to assassinate the king: he gave him Shards.

Dalinar made an understandable, but bad judgment call when he gave so much responsibilities to a man he barely knew. It could have ended badly and the king was saved to the last minute when Kaladin finally received a wake-up call.

All in all, Dalinar did gamble. He may not have had much choice, but it nearly ended badly which is why I say he should have been more careful when entrusting Kaladin. Had Kaladin not betrayed the Kholins, I would probably have a different discourse, but he did. I hope for him Dalinar never finds out the truth of his implication.

I am not saying he should not hve given Kaladin any command, just perhaps not guarding the king… not without somenone else to oversee the whole thing.